Soul care for pastors, ministry leaders, and the people who love them. Clif and Sally Roth talk honestly about staying human in ministry: not superhuman, not less than human, just human.
Subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts
Search “The Pastor as Person” in your favorite app, or click one of the buttons below.
Episode 01 · You Don’t Have to Repent for Not Being God: Pastors and Burnout
What is this Podcast about?
Seminary teaches you how to do ministry. It doesn't always teach you what ministry is going to do to you.
The Pastor as Person is a soul-care conversation for pastors, ministry leaders, pastors' spouses and families, and anyone who loves a pastor. Hosts Clif and Sally Roth have been married more than 20 years and lead CrossPoint Ministry, which has cared for pastors for three decades. This show is less a lecture and more a seat at their table. As Clif puts it, they share a home, then sit down at a table with microphones and talk about life.
Each episode opens with a simple check-in on body, heart, mind, or soul. Then comes honest, unscripted conversation about burnout, limits, loneliness, spiritual formation, and what it means to be a whole person in a demanding role. You'll hear stories from their marriage and ministry, and 15 years of walking with pastors through hard seasons, along with the people, books, and prayers that have shaped them.
It's not a harsh mirror. It's a soft place to land and a safe place to tell the truth.
The show takes its heart from Paul's words to Timothy: keep a close watch on yourself. Because God made you, and you're worth watching.
All Season 01 Episodes
Introduction · What Ministry Does to You: Why Pastors Need Soul Care
Research shows that about 90% of pastors encourage their people to get counseling, but only 9% seek it out for themselves. Clif and Sally share why they started this show, where the name came from, and why every pastor out-teaches what they can live.
Episode 01 · You Don’t Have to Repent for Not Being God: Pastors and Burnout
Your limits aren't a result of the fall. They were part of God's very good design. Clif and Sally explore embracing your humanity with honesty and hope, and why ordinariness is the gravity that keeps leaders grounded for the long haul.
Episode 02 · The Best Gift You Can Give: Being Present in Ministry
Over breakfast, a mentor told Clif that the best gift you can give anyone is your transformed and transforming presence. Clif nearly fell out of his chair. Clif and Sally talk about the people who showed up for them, and why you can't be present to others while you're absent from yourself.
Episode 03 · God Is Not a Cowboy: The Slow Journey of Spiritual Formation
Soul work is slow work. Clif and Sally reflect on staying patient (and staying patients), the pain that forms us, and why the Good Shepherd walks beside you instead of driving you from behind.
Episode 04 · You Know a Lot of Theology. How’s that Going for You?: Rethinking Competence In Ministry
Clif and Sally rethink competence in ministry. They talk about why real wisdom grows in relationship, the year Sally stopped reading books and heard God say "you have enough," and curiosity as reserving judgment just long enough to learn something new.
Episode 05 · Hospitality Is Not a Performance: Margin, Generosity, and Being Hosted by God
Hospitality isn't frozen cookies and a tidy front room. Clif and Sally tell the story of a neighbor who asked for a glass of water every day for a whole summer, explain why welcoming others without margin leads to burnout, and offer permission for the seasons when it's your turn to be hosted.
Episode 06 · Admired but Not Enjoyed: Pastors, Loneliness, and Community
Pastors build community for everyone else and often have none of their own. Clif and Sally get personal about loneliness in leadership and the hospital night that taught them the difference between suffering and trauma. They also explain why loving your dream of community can destroy the real thing.
“Seminary teaches you how to do ministry. It doesn’t always teach you what ministry is going to do to you.”
THE PASTOR AS PERSON PODCAST
Your Hosts
Clifton Roth
I was born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee, where I literally cut my teeth on the back of a church pew. After Bryan College, I married my high school sweetheart, Sally, then earned my MA at Southern Seminary and served at Sojourn Church Midtown. In 2019, we accepted Rich Plass's invitation to lead CrossPoint. Today I'm passionate about the emotional, relational, sexual, and spiritual health of pastors and leaders, helping them find the trust and courage to believe their own claims, because trustworthy leaders lead trustworthy churches.
Executive Director
Director of culture & developmentSally Roth
I’m a true “Okie from Muskogee” who grew up in East Tennessee, falling in love with the mountains and southern hospitality. I earned a B.S. in psychology from Tennessee Temple University, married my high school sweetheart, Clif, and we’re raising three daughters named after flowers. Trained in Relational Soul Care and the Enneagram, I love creating space for pastors’ wives, women leaders, and women who’ve experienced betrayal in marriage and in the church to find discovery, renewal, and healing.
Do you have questions for Clif and Sally specifically or about CrossPoint generally? Reach out to us at [email protected]
